Question: How to run the Deseq2 tool without replicates.
0
gravatar for fatimarasool135
11 days ago by
fatimarasool13540 wrote:

Hi,

I am doing differential gene expression by Deseq2 tool. I have no replicates and I am doing multi group comparison between samples.

Can anyone tell me how to run the Deseq2 tool without replicates?

rna-seq deseq2 bioconductor R • 171 views
ADD COMMENTlink modified 10 days ago by waqaskhokhar99970 • written 11 days ago by fatimarasool13540

Yes i have no replicates in any group and i nothing found answer to my question in manual of Deseq

ADD REPLYlink written 11 days ago by fatimarasool13540
1

From the manual (Nicolas Rosewick even linked it):

Can I use DESeq2 to analyze a dataset without replicates?

If a DESeqDataSet is provided with an experimental design without replicates, a warning is printed, that the samples are treated as replicates for estimation of dispersion. This kind of analysis is only useful for exploring the data, but will not provide the kind of proper statistical inference on differences between groups. Without biological replicates, it is not possible to estimate the biological variability of each gene. More details can be found in the manual page for ?DESeq.

The answers to your question are availablevia a solid search in the web, this literally has been discussed like 100 times before. Please show some effort and look for these threads.

ADD REPLYlink written 11 days ago by ATpoint23k

Its better to use EdgeR for data without replicates. Please see the section 2.11 (What to do if you have no replicates)

ADD REPLYlink written 10 days ago by waqaskhokhar99970
4

No, it is not. If you read this section you refer to you will see that

We do not recommend any of these choices (edit: of the strategies suggested in the section) as a satisfactory alternative for biological replication.

Any framework, be it edgeR or DESeq2 that relies on dispersion estimation between replicates does not give reasonable results in the absence of replication.

It is very simple: If you want reliable statistics, do replicates. If you have none (be it due to money, material availability/feasibility or poor experimental design) the best you can do is to select some candidate genes based on ranking FCs (that have reasonable counts to avoid high FCs based on low counts) and validate them using independent experiments. You are never going to make strong claims on unreplicated data. ...and yes, there are even highly-cited publications that make strong claims on unreplicated data, and one should wonder how many of these claims really held true if one repeated things using proper design and statistics.

ADD REPLYlink modified 10 days ago by RamRS24k • written 10 days ago by ATpoint23k
1

Hi waqaskhokhar999 ,

thanks for your input (which is indeed "correct" and I assume the other people answering here are aware of that).

However, the point we want to make is to "educate" people that they should not do DEG analyses without replicates. This point is as well mentioned in the EdgeR section you direct to. It anyway remains a 'hack' approach.

ADD REPLYlink written 10 days ago by lieven.sterck5.8k
3
gravatar for Nicolas Rosewick
11 days ago by
Belgium, Brussels
Nicolas Rosewick8.1k wrote:

None of your groups has replicates ? If not it will be very difficult (even impossible) to have reliable results ..

Nevertheless in the DESeq2 vignette : https://bioconductor.org/packages/release/bioc/vignettes/DESeq2/inst/doc/DESeq2.html#can-i-use-deseq2-to-analyze-a-dataset-without-replicates

ADD COMMENTlink modified 11 days ago • written 11 days ago by Nicolas Rosewick8.1k

Yes i have no replicates in any group and i nothing found answer to my question in manual of Deseq

ADD REPLYlink written 11 days ago by fatimarasool13540

As stated in DESeq2 manual :

This kind of analysis is only useful for exploring the data, but will not provide the kind of proper statistical inference on differences between groups. Without biological replicates, it is not possible to estimate the biological variability of each gene. More details can be found in the manual page for ?DESeq.

ADD REPLYlink modified 11 days ago • written 11 days ago by Nicolas Rosewick8.1k
3
gravatar for lieven.sterck
11 days ago by
lieven.sterck5.8k
VIB, Ghent, Belgium
lieven.sterck5.8k wrote:

I'm afraid the only valid answer here will be NOT .

if you insist have a look here: http://bioconductor.org/packages/devel/bioc/vignettes/DESeq2/inst/doc/DESeq2.html (first hit on google btw)

ADD COMMENTlink written 11 days ago by lieven.sterck5.8k
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