Question: Bl2Seq/Blastall And The E Value Help
4
gravatar for Gturco
7.8 years ago by
Gturco40
Gturco40 wrote:

I am using bl2seq(2.2.25) to blastn two fasta files. I am not sure I fully understand how the (-e) parameter works.

I thought the -e parameter was a cut off e-value and would therefore show all results with a e_value under 10 given my current parameters.This is not what I am seeing. Can someone please explain why?

EXAMPLE: When I set my e_value to 10 (-e 10) I am missing some results that have an -e value under 10. I know this because when i set it to -e 50 (using the same parameters) I get more results of e values under 10.

NOTICE: the 0.09 e values have one more when i set my e value to 50

/blast-2.2.25/bin/bl2seq -p blastn -D 1 -E 2 -q -2 -r 1 -G 5 -W 7 -F T -e 10.11 -i '1.fasta' -j '3.fasta' -I 35606641,35636750 -J 66649067,6668249735606641,35636750 -J 66649067,66682497

BLASTN 2.2.25 [Feb-01-2011]
Query: 
Fields: Query id, Subject id, % identity, alignment length, mismatches, gap openings, q. start, q. end, s. start, s. end, e-value, bit score
QUERY        88.89    72    5    1    35624525    35624593    66670273    66670344    8e-17    83.4
QUERY        79.37    63    13    0    35625030    35625092    66670905    66670967    8e-06    46.8
QUERY        79.66    59    12    0    35618518    35618576    66660799    66660857    3e-05    44.9
QUERY        82.81    64    9    2    35624843    35624905    66670679    66670741    4e-04    41.1
QUERY        95.45    22    1    0    35618611    35618632    66660909    66660930    0.006    37.2
QUERY        91.30    23    2    0    35616154    35616176    66656321    66656343    0.090    33.4
QUERY        90.32    31    2    1    35622387    35622416    66666325    66666355    0.090    33.4
QUERY        100.00    17    0    0    35636434    35636450    66679138    66679154    0.090    33.4
QUERY        94.74    19    1    0    35619531    35619549    66661864    66661882    0.34    31.5
QUERY        100.00    15    0    0    35624258    35624272    66660468    66660482    1.3    29.5
QUERY        90.48    21    2    0    35623234    35623254    66667186    66667206    1.3    29.5

/blast-2.2.25/bin/bl2seq -p blastn -D 1 -E 2 -q -2 -r 1 -G 5 -W 7 -F T -e 50.11 -i '1.fasta' -j '3.fasta' -I 35606641,35636750 -J 66649067,66682497

BLASTN 2.2.25 [Feb-01-2011] Query:

Fields: Query id, Subject id, % identity, alignment length, mismatches, gap openings, q. start, q. end, s. start, s. end, e-value, bit score

    QUERY        88.89    72    5    1    35624525    35624593    66670273    66670344    8e-17    83.4
    QUERY        79.37    63    13    0    35625030    35625092    66670905    66670967    8e-06    46.8
    QUERY        79.66    59    12    0    35618518    35618576    66660799    66660857    3e-05    44.9
    QUERY        82.81    64    9    2    35624843    35624905    66670679    66670741    4e-04    41.1
    QUERY        95.45    22    1    0    35618611    35618632    66660909    66660930    0.006    37.2
    QUERY        91.30    23    2    0    35616154    35616176    66656321    66656343    0.090    33.4
    QUERY        90.32    31    2    1    35622387    35622416    66666325    66666355    0.090    33.4
    QUERY        96.00    25    0    1    35625785    35625809    66672077    66672100    0.090    33.4
    QUERY        100.00    17    0    0    35636434    35636450    66679138    66679154    0.090    33.4
    QUERY        94.74    19    1    0    35619531    35619549    66661864    66661882    0.34    31.5
    QUERY        100.00    15    0    0    35624258    35624272    66660468    66660482    1.3    29.5
    QUERY        90.48    21    2    0    35623234    35623254    66667186    66667206    1.3    29.5

35606641,35636750 -J 66649067,66682497

blast • 3.1k views
ADD COMMENTlink modified 7.7 years ago by Michael Kuhn5.0k • written 7.8 years ago by Gturco40
3
gravatar for Michael Kuhn
7.8 years ago by
Michael Kuhn5.0k
EMBL Heidelberg
Michael Kuhn5.0k wrote:

The missing alignment with e-value 0.09 is relatively short and has a gap. So it might be that it originated as two HSPs with e-values above 10, which are discarded in the first case, but in the second case are merged yielding an alignment with a higher bitscore and lower e-value. (See steps 9 and 10 of the Wikipedia explanation.)

Update: In my own BLAST queries, I saw a case where increasing the e-value threshold (while using Smith-Waterman traceback) caused some hits to vanish and others to appear. So there is more non-determinism to this than the explanation I give. :-/

ADD COMMENTlink modified 7.7 years ago • written 7.8 years ago by Michael Kuhn5.0k

Ah, that seems likely, +1 to you. You should be able to check this by looking at the XML output from BLAST, where each [?] may have multiple [?] elements. Thanks for the WP link, hadn't seen that one.

ADD REPLYlink written 7.8 years ago by Ketil3.9k

Thanks! I didn't even think of that! also thanks for the additional help for checking it. =)

ADD REPLYlink written 7.8 years ago by Gturco40
0
gravatar for Ketil
7.8 years ago by
Ketil3.9k
Germany
Ketil3.9k wrote:

Looks like a BLAST [?]bug[?] feature? I'd be tempted to think that BLAST would adjust its stringency based on the E-value, but you seem to have all the other parameters nailed down. BLAST is using a heuristic, so perhaps some non-determinism is to be expected, perhaps especially as your e-value thresholds are high. At any rate, I think failing to report an alignment with an e-value of 0.090 must be considered a bug.

What happens if you switch the sequences? What happens if you use other e-values?

ADD COMMENTlink modified 7.8 years ago • written 7.8 years ago by Ketil3.9k
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